I have recently started to order from a certain Irish moulding supplier who shall remain nameless for the moment.
My first order - everything was there but there just seemed to be more than I ordered. It was a very busy day and I didn't pursue my checks.
Second order - there was 50% more moulding than I ordered. I complained - apparently they sent me the whole box to prevent them from splitting it but they say they should have checked with me first.
Third order - Same thing again - sent me a lot more than I ordered and I will be dealing with the matter on Monday.
Does this sound familiar to anyone?
I wouldn't like to hear my customers if I gave them 10 frames instead of the 6 they ordered and expected them to pay for 10.
The Way to do Business
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mathematician
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- Location: Ireland
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Roboframer
Hopefully this is just teething trouble.
I remember my early days with a certain company - quantity wasn't the problem - just the right stuff!
They sent this and that wrong, I re-ordered, then they charged me carriage for the replacement, then they didn't collect the wrong stuff after saying they would. Then they sent a rep round "What is the problem?"
"Don't you know?"
"No - sales manager said to drop round and sort some problems out"
"Well they sent the wrong stuff a couple of times"
"have they replaced it?"
"Yes"
"So, what's the problem?"
"They said they would collect it - I thought that was what you had come to do"
"SOD OFF! - I only go up there about twice a year - what am I going to do with it - stick it in my garage?"
"OK - but they also charged me carraige on replacements"
"SO WHAT"
"SO I'M PAYING FOR YOUR F*****G MISTAKES - THAT'S WHAT"
(Yes Pal I can give it too!)
"Oh, I see - OK next time you order under carriage paid we'll swallow the carriage"
"Nuts! you'll forget - I'll be on the phone again, anyway it was next day - a credit note wil;l be fine"
He was tutting and roling his eyes - we got the invoices out to work out what was owed, he came acros one......
"This stuff you wanted - 56p per foot"?"
"Yes"
"The stuff we sent was THREE QUID A FOOT and we're only charging you 56p - and your admitting it - are you MAD"
"Er, no - just honest, plus I need the stuff I ordered"
"No mate, what you do is shuttup and re-order - keep the posh stuff, make some profit on it"
Anyone guess who this company is (They are much much better these days)
I remember my early days with a certain company - quantity wasn't the problem - just the right stuff!
They sent this and that wrong, I re-ordered, then they charged me carriage for the replacement, then they didn't collect the wrong stuff after saying they would. Then they sent a rep round "What is the problem?"
"Don't you know?"
"No - sales manager said to drop round and sort some problems out"
"Well they sent the wrong stuff a couple of times"
"have they replaced it?"
"Yes"
"So, what's the problem?"
"They said they would collect it - I thought that was what you had come to do"
"SOD OFF! - I only go up there about twice a year - what am I going to do with it - stick it in my garage?"
"OK - but they also charged me carraige on replacements"
"SO WHAT"
"SO I'M PAYING FOR YOUR F*****G MISTAKES - THAT'S WHAT"
(Yes Pal I can give it too!)
"Oh, I see - OK next time you order under carriage paid we'll swallow the carriage"
"Nuts! you'll forget - I'll be on the phone again, anyway it was next day - a credit note wil;l be fine"
He was tutting and roling his eyes - we got the invoices out to work out what was owed, he came acros one......
"This stuff you wanted - 56p per foot"?"
"Yes"
"The stuff we sent was THREE QUID A FOOT and we're only charging you 56p - and your admitting it - are you MAD"
"Er, no - just honest, plus I need the stuff I ordered"
"No mate, what you do is shuttup and re-order - keep the posh stuff, make some profit on it"
Anyone guess who this company is (They are much much better these days)
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John
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Mathematician,
A lot depends on the quantity ordered.
I do not expect the supplier to split packets of moulding, so when he rounds up to the next full packet I'm not too bothered.
For example, if a certain moulding was wrapped in packs of 80ft and I order 100ft, I will probably end up with 160ft. In this situation, it is up to me to either order 80ft or else make a special request that they split a pack in order to send me the exact amount.
A lot depends on the quantity ordered.
I do not expect the supplier to split packets of moulding, so when he rounds up to the next full packet I'm not too bothered.
For example, if a certain moulding was wrapped in packs of 80ft and I order 100ft, I will probably end up with 160ft. In this situation, it is up to me to either order 80ft or else make a special request that they split a pack in order to send me the exact amount.
HOW Much!?
EstLite Picture Framing Software
EstLite Picture Framing Software
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Keith Hewitt
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Move to Australia!
Mathematician,
You are buying from the wrong supplier! I heard a lovely story from my Australian distributor who was complaining that business is really flat down under.
Told me a framer came in and said"I need a little bit of moulding. I've got enough for the other 3 sides I just need a short length to complete the job!".
Being an obliging sort he supplied a short length. Then the framer said "I've forgotten my wallet - will you please charge it to my account!"
You are buying from the wrong supplier! I heard a lovely story from my Australian distributor who was complaining that business is really flat down under.
Told me a framer came in and said"I need a little bit of moulding. I've got enough for the other 3 sides I just need a short length to complete the job!".
Being an obliging sort he supplied a short length. Then the framer said "I've forgotten my wallet - will you please charge it to my account!"
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Dermot
It is common practice in most business to supply raw material in the nearest full pack quantity ordered……and the picture framing industry is no exception…..
Moulding is a raw material for the picture framer……….NOT a finished product.
Your analogy of a finished frame for your customer and the raw material is not a good business analysis
Would you expect the wholesaler to open a pack of mount board and supply a 16” x 20” mount to you out of the whole sheet of mount board!!!!! ……………same thing holds for the moulding…….why should they split a standard pack of moulding!!!!
If you business model will not stand buying moulding in standard packs you should consider changing it to buying chop…..
There is one wholesaler out of Dublin who make their pricing structure very attractive to buy in full pack sizes…………it is very easy with there pricing method to maximize your buying power…..
Dermot
Moulding is a raw material for the picture framer……….NOT a finished product.
Your analogy of a finished frame for your customer and the raw material is not a good business analysis
Would you expect the wholesaler to open a pack of mount board and supply a 16” x 20” mount to you out of the whole sheet of mount board!!!!! ……………same thing holds for the moulding…….why should they split a standard pack of moulding!!!!
If you business model will not stand buying moulding in standard packs you should consider changing it to buying chop…..
There is one wholesaler out of Dublin who make their pricing structure very attractive to buy in full pack sizes…………it is very easy with there pricing method to maximize your buying power…..
Dermot
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mathematician
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- Location: Ireland
Dermot,
I seem to give given you the wrong impression which I don't fully grasp because I did use the word "box" and not "pack".
I have been in this business (very successfully) for 10years.
My usual supplier is Arqadia. If I order 20m - I may receive 24 or 30m or whatever the nearest pack size is - not a problem.
If I order a box (100 to 200m usually)of moulding from Arqadia I can negotiate a discount.
What I don't expect is to be sent all of the packs in the box because somebody can't be bothered opening the box.
To use your mountboard analogy - I assume that you would expect to be sent the entire pallet rather than the pack of 10 you ordered.
Btw, may I suggest that you re-read your own post and ask yourself if it doesn't sound just a little condescending.
I seem to give given you the wrong impression which I don't fully grasp because I did use the word "box" and not "pack".
I have been in this business (very successfully) for 10years.
My usual supplier is Arqadia. If I order 20m - I may receive 24 or 30m or whatever the nearest pack size is - not a problem.
If I order a box (100 to 200m usually)of moulding from Arqadia I can negotiate a discount.
What I don't expect is to be sent all of the packs in the box because somebody can't be bothered opening the box.
To use your mountboard analogy - I assume that you would expect to be sent the entire pallet rather than the pack of 10 you ordered.
Btw, may I suggest that you re-read your own post and ask yourself if it doesn't sound just a little condescending.
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John
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Ah ha,
Now that's another story.
Not knowing the quantities involved I jumped to the wrong conclusion.
Now that's another story.
Not knowing the quantities involved I jumped to the wrong conclusion.
HOW Much!?
EstLite Picture Framing Software
EstLite Picture Framing Software
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Dermot
Yes my post may have been a bit condescending and I make no apologies it was intended to be that way……..BTW talk about the kettle calling the pot black………
At least I’m not hiding behind some anonymous sign in……
If you re read my post I said most business……..and not knowing what your business or supposed business is……..it is difficult to ascertain whether you are a crank or if you have some real grievance
From what I can gather you are a bit pissed just because a supplier has not made a phone call to you……..
In order to widen the debate on this subject and I do acknowledge that there is a need for debate on the question you have opened, about how a supplier fulfil an order for raw material for manufacturing……..how did you place the order!!!!!…..to a rep……by phone …..by email…..by on-line order system……by fax………Etc Etc……
Dermot
At least I’m not hiding behind some anonymous sign in……
If you re read my post I said most business……..and not knowing what your business or supposed business is……..it is difficult to ascertain whether you are a crank or if you have some real grievance
From what I can gather you are a bit pissed just because a supplier has not made a phone call to you……..
In order to widen the debate on this subject and I do acknowledge that there is a need for debate on the question you have opened, about how a supplier fulfil an order for raw material for manufacturing……..how did you place the order!!!!!…..to a rep……by phone …..by email…..by on-line order system……by fax………Etc Etc……
Dermot
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markw
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Roboframer
I don't have a problem with boxes/packs. I know Arqadia do not split packs, so I order by the pack, not by the metre. If I need a specific amount, or not less than a certain amount, I will get them to confirm the pack quantity. Some larger/dearer mouldings come in 'packs' of one length!
Other suppliers I order by the metre (or by the foot for Simons - love them for that) Always get close to or exactly what I want.
Other suppliers I order by the metre (or by the foot for Simons - love them for that) Always get close to or exactly what I want.
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Merlin
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The only problem I have is with Simons. I always ask the moulding length, they say 9 feet. So I have already worked out that 1 pack of 6 lengths will do the job for me. It arrives and it is only 6 feet long. Damn 18 feet short, so I re order more to complete. Guess what 9 feet lengths this time and of course a different shade.
Bless them!!!
Bless them!!!
John GCF
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Roboframer
I never order by the length from D&J - always by the foot, that way it does not usually matter how long each length is.
I just love Simons - has anyone ever been to Hackney Road to see them?
I have - what an experience!
I must go again - most times when I ring an order in ( I NEVER use their answer-phone ordering service - I HATE it - always press 1, then 0 - to speak to a real person) - I get Laverne - Laverne has been taking orders for at least ten years - imagine sitting there al day like this..
"D&J Simons, Laverne speaking...... Account number? ....... Acme framing company?......... Go ahead....
Hm......... Hm...............Hm ....................Hm ................ Hm..............
Thank you, who am I speaking to? ......... Thank you John, bye...
D&J Simons, Laverne speaking........ Account number?....."
I'm going to turn up with a bunch of flowers for Laverne. Incidentally - she seems to be THE one to speak to if you want to be sure of anything.
I just love Simons - has anyone ever been to Hackney Road to see them?
I have - what an experience!
I must go again - most times when I ring an order in ( I NEVER use their answer-phone ordering service - I HATE it - always press 1, then 0 - to speak to a real person) - I get Laverne - Laverne has been taking orders for at least ten years - imagine sitting there al day like this..
"D&J Simons, Laverne speaking...... Account number? ....... Acme framing company?......... Go ahead....
Hm......... Hm...............Hm ....................Hm ................ Hm..............
Thank you, who am I speaking to? ......... Thank you John, bye...
D&J Simons, Laverne speaking........ Account number?....."
I'm going to turn up with a bunch of flowers for Laverne. Incidentally - she seems to be THE one to speak to if you want to be sure of anything.
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Pauline Hutchinson
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- Location: Bedford
Pack sizes
Message to all from Pauline at Arqadia Ltd.
We at Arqadia do recognise the problems of buying large pack qty's and have tried to lessen the stock holding by now offering single lengths on all Larson Juhl mouldings. With the rest of our range we still sell by the pack or box. For pack qty we try to keep this to a maximum of 2-4 lengths (approx 3mtrs per length) though it does depend on the size of the moulding. Smaller mouldings tend to have larger qty's whilst wider mouldings have only 1 length per pack.
We have also added some Arqadia mouldings to our chop service and from our latest launch of mouldings do offer single lengths also.
I hope this information will help some of you and make you aware that as a supplier we do listen to your needs.
We at Arqadia do recognise the problems of buying large pack qty's and have tried to lessen the stock holding by now offering single lengths on all Larson Juhl mouldings. With the rest of our range we still sell by the pack or box. For pack qty we try to keep this to a maximum of 2-4 lengths (approx 3mtrs per length) though it does depend on the size of the moulding. Smaller mouldings tend to have larger qty's whilst wider mouldings have only 1 length per pack.
We have also added some Arqadia mouldings to our chop service and from our latest launch of mouldings do offer single lengths also.
I hope this information will help some of you and make you aware that as a supplier we do listen to your needs.
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markw
Seems daft that we are grateful for our vendors to come on this forum and actually talk to us - and listen (I am - Thanks Pauline, Keith and Sam). The figures for the number of people viewing has become quite significant and could justifiably be seen as a good way of reaching the customer base in a very direct way.
I think it was Roboframer who commented that for many framers this form of direct contact was potentially better than belonging to a trade association - all we need now is a few more willing to actually put down their thoughts - pose some good topical questions and drive on this wonderful resource. Vendors adding comments - especially from a knowledgable position can only add to the debate - if they are persuasive enough I am sure the exposure will only do them some good - now then - Bainbridge (Nielsen) how about a good debate on the merits of Artcore boards - I am sure that Arquadia will have some valuable comments to make.
I think it was Roboframer who commented that for many framers this form of direct contact was potentially better than belonging to a trade association - all we need now is a few more willing to actually put down their thoughts - pose some good topical questions and drive on this wonderful resource. Vendors adding comments - especially from a knowledgable position can only add to the debate - if they are persuasive enough I am sure the exposure will only do them some good - now then - Bainbridge (Nielsen) how about a good debate on the merits of Artcore boards - I am sure that Arquadia will have some valuable comments to make.