The Framers Forum

A quck question to every member of this forum: What procedure does your business employ to ensure that customers actually collect and pay for their frame(s) - and preferably without ubdue delay?

Another good topic John.

We try to take a deposit of 50% on items which are of no value other than to the owner.

We are also toying with the idea of charging, or threatening to charge, a storage fee for items not collected within a certain period after the due date. Does anyone have any experience in this area?

JR

We work a seven day turn round on all bespoke framing. Return customers or those that we know are given the choice of paying on order or paying on pick up.
New customers ie, those not in our database, are require to pay a deposit, usually 50%. At the end of the day we do have their address and telephone number on record, placed with the order.
We also do tell new customers that if the item is not picked up within 60 days then they will see their framing job in the window with a note over the top. Do you know this person.. Fortunately my bluff has not been called yet. I only have one framing job that has not been picked up and after the seventh telephone call he said Keep it.. - A limited edition leaf press - that is now in the drawer awaiting my decision as to what to do with it... The frame was remade into a ready made frame and the cost recovered...
I have certainly found that a curteous telephone call (or two) after 14 days has worked, especially when on the second call, I do tell them that they will incur a storage charge of 10% of the cost per week.
In seven years this has worked extremely well.. touching wood here now - and I have not had to resort to a letter.
But then again, we are a rural town, most of the customers are or have a military connection with the local base 3 miles up the road. Having only left the military 4 years ago myself.. I still have contacts !!! if you get my drift.

As with Merlin we dont take a deposit from known customers - unless the item has little commercial value then i will normally take payment up front - even my good customers have been known to take weeks to come back. i have completed orders - paid for that havn't been picked up, including orders where the print was purchased from me, that still sit in a corner of my store room - despite phone calls reminding the customer that all they need to do is walk through the door and I will hand it over.

Dead customers have proved very difficult and i have had a few over the years, my last one, a polo player who broke his neck very publicly whilst playing at a local club. I didnt have a contact for relatives - and through the grapevine i will possibly get it to someone who cared for him, but untill i do it will sit on my workshop wall - never to be paid for.

The customer that gets to me more than the late pickup is the "i must have it by friday" having come in on tuesday - if your lucky its a big order so you break your neck to get it done - and they dont pick up for weeks, whats even worse is hearing yourself sypathise when the customer tells you why they couldnt make it - oh well! good job i enjoy what i do, some say my happy countenance is good for business - my wife says differently.

Having started the topic I suppose I should have provided the first reply! I, too, charge a 50% deposit and take names and addresses - when I remember. I do not apply this to regular customers - who have proved to be trustworthy already. However, even they can take ages to collect (and pay).

It is not just a matter of trustworthiness, however. My shop is in a very small town which has lost a lot of regular shoppers over the past few years due to the development of better shopping facilities (including large new supermarkets) in larger towns 12 to 25 miles away. Most of my customers come from other towns and villages and make a special journey to collect frames - where once they might have collected them during a weekly shopping visit.

To have £800-£1000 worth of finished frames sitting in the shop for weeks at a time is not good for the business - small businesses (we are told) are killed off more often by lack of cashflow than by lack of work. I was in this situation on Christmas Eve (and we all know how anxious people are to have their frames in time for Christmas!).

So prompt collection and payment is also about keeping the lid on costs (especially the cost of borrowing) - not entirely a matter of trust. Whuich is why a deposit should apply to ALL customers if the idea can be explained diplomatically.

Storage charges may be another option but I remain reluctant to introduce such measures. They complicate the paperweork and the legal relationshiop between us and our customers. For years I have managed perfectly well without deposits or even addresses. Names and phone numbers have been sufficient. Yes, I have been let down perhaps once per year but any small loss involved would not be enough to justify a change to my system.

Now I feel that the public attitude has shifted in recent times. Good, individual service is so unusual on the average high street that Mr or Mrs Public no longer expects it or knows how to behave properly on receiving it.

Looking to come into the business I find this thread very interesting as it needs to brought into the business plan in terms of cash flow.
One area I was thinking about to overcome this issue is to provide a delivery service where the customer could pay on delivery. All I would need is for a family member or myself to carry out this task and would assist in quantifying the purchase of a delivery vehicle. Perhaps a hanging service could also be included which could be a piece of value added service and charge appropiately.

Just a couple of thoughts from a green'un

Len Turnbull

Hi Len,

Perhaps the strength of feeling in this thread has given a false perspective on what amounts to the negligable writeoff which we have all incurred when customers fail to collect. In our case, I would guess, the actual value of uncollected framing jobs would amount to £100 to £200 per year.

Compared to many other businesses, this is nothing.

You have to be careful though, regarding disposal of uncollected items. Some time ago, a thick-set, tatoo necked gentleman came in asking for his pictures. It took a while to establish that this job had been left with us three years previously. It turned out that I had donated his two lovely wildlife prints to a charity auction just that same week, as I had given up on him ever returning. He wasn't in the least impressed and I had a sweaty moment or two. It turned out that he had just finished a 'three year stretch'.

Good luck with your new venture.

John

Hi Len.
A very quick look at the cashflow situation for us..
Just to be able to open the door 7 days a week, costs £1290 a month. that is rent, rates, utilities, insurance etc. NO WAGES.. or purchasing of stock.
If my maths is correct that equates to £14.33 per hour of opening.

So with wages and stock included, that would certainly push the figure to somewhere between £30 and £40 per hour. To qualify that I am trained and certificated. As I hope my car technician is and he charges £37 per hour.

WRT delivery service, we looked into that, but this being a very rural part of the country with large distances between towns/villages, it would not be cost effective. vis the cost of vehicle purchase, insurance and other running costs.
A hanging service, would that increase your insurance, say you accidentily damaged the customers property.. walls etc and what guarantee would you put on the wall hanging.
Certainly in the USA, nearly all the framing outlets offer a delivery and fitting service AND they charge for it...
Not sure that the British - well Cornish down here - would pay what could be a considerable amount over and above what they already think is expensive..
Just some more thoughts

Hi All
Just to say I tried delivery and a hanging service for customers to compete with local businesses as nobody did it now I know why, Its amazing the amount of people that want something for nothing and that service seems to fall into that trap somewhat embarrassing when they just thank you !!!!! To honest and gullable I suppose but then costs have to be taken into consideration unknown at the time. But my car insurance lept up by over £200 and then there was extra liability insurance for damage claims from falling frames and the likes !!!! All to much for my scottish pocket !!!!!!
Cheers Ian

As a method of ensuring prompt "collection" and payment for finished frames a delivery service wouldn't work in respect of at least half of my customers who depend on credit cards to pay at all! Apart from that, I cannot see many customers wishing to pay for delivery, or a hanging service for that matter and I cannot afford to do it for free, especially when that time would be better spent making frames.

Customer walks into our shop, "I left a picture here 18 months ago for framing"
Gets the answer "It'll be ready in ten minutes"

True story. Happens more than you'd think. no we hadn't forotten it. we just thought he wouldn't come back, and we were sort of right. But how long does it take to put a postcard into an 8x6?

Nowadays we steer the very simple jobs to our "one hour framing" for a small surcharge- so they pay, and take it away right there and then. everyone happy. The surcharge is about the same as the car park will cost if they have to come and pick it up, point this out and they are quite happy to pay on the spot for the convenience.

It all depends on the tact and diplomacy of the staff on the counter, and their evaluation of the customer. It really only applies to a new customer. Regulars know the score.

we are generally pay on pick up -unless the item looks of no value whatsoever, and not worth picking up - in which case we sometimes "encourage" them to pay up front. but 90% are pay on collection.

I dont think our policy encourages prompt collection. But when we need to clear the decks for space behind the counter a few phone calls generally does the job.

But we do find that having quite a few jobs visible and waiting for collection gives a new customer a good impression, seeing that you are busy and that plenty of other people are happy to trust their jobs to you. And frequently they'll point at one and say "do me one like that", so jobs waiting for collection can be a bit of a marketing tool.

Every mushroom cloud has a siver lining, they say.

A new customer generally asks "do i pay now" to which the reply (depending on the above "valuation" criteria" is "you can if you like, or when you collect, or leave a deposit. whichever suits you".

We have, perhaps, no more than a dozen uncollected jobs a year which we just sell off "to clear" or throw in the bin. thats not bad out of severalthousand of jobs a year.

probably the wrong way to go about it, but we figure that if its important enough to the customer to bring it for framing, the likelyhood is that its important enough for them to come back for.

"trade" customers, on the other hand, now they are cash up front. On the principle "If you want a discount, we are not going to wait for the money". You know what some alleged artists can be like

re: delivery and hanging service - the only thing you'll want to hang half the time is the customer - however we had some sucess with this in the past by passing the customer a local handyman's phone number. Or passing the buck, as its otherwise known.
Re delivery, if the customer asks and they are local thats no problem, it goes by a local taxi firm, and they pay when it arrives. Bigger items go by a local man and van (who actually has insurance for carrying art) -likewise customer pays him on delivery.

Further afield we deliver by city-link or amtrak, and the customer pays for it at cost price. the only extra time and expense for us is the packaging, but I write that off as goodwill. This is more relevant to those of us who work in tourist areas, as many of our reguulars come here on holiday, and bring framing with them year after year, or buy larger items and we send it on when they get home. gets a few extra sales, I guess.

How much sitting behind the counter waiting? well, as long as it isn't more than there is in next weeks order book, no worries, its just like a "float" -sooner or later its going to be money in the bank