The Framers Forum

Guys,

Question, I usually use my % mark up to cost for framing an artists work, but one artist has some moulding she wants to use up, so has asked me to frame a few canvas's in her moulding, any help on how to charge for this, maybe a rule of thumb??

Cheers
Johnny.

Work out how much profit you would want to make an hour and use an hourly rate plus a bit for the materials. failing that Identify and cost the moulding, cost as usual including then take out the cost price and you are left with what profit you would have made if you had supplied the moulding.

I think you have partially answered your own question by saying you apply a % markup.

If you normally buy a moulding at say £5 pm and mark up 500% then you will be selling at £25 pm so if you are not supplying the moulding the take off £5 pm giving a charge of £20 per metre.

On the other hand there will be no wastage for you to bear so you could decide upon an hourly rate and charge for your time. Most frames take around the same time to make although of different sizes so I think your customer will more readily accept a flat charge per frame for making up their moulding.

Which is pretty much what Alistair has said.

One word of caution!

We often have blades sent to us for sharpening where the framer has used someone elses moulding or old frames and which have hidden pieces of metal embedded in the moulding, the result is a big chip in the blades. A costly mistake whilst trying to help someone save a little bit of money

Beware. If it's not a moulding you use or are familiar with it may be a PITA to work with and you might end up with a lot of wastage. The artist might not understand this. Try a bit first.

Check how straight it is as well, if it has been stacked in a shed somewhere for a while it could easily be bent or twisted. I've only done this once, I costed it out very quickly and found that it woulkd have cost roughly the same as buying my own moulding. Hey presto! The customer was still exceptionally happy with the final result.

Dave

Always beware of the artist trying to save money, well that covers about 98% of them, there is usually a catch.

I have learnt not to agree to do things like this. People like this have no concept of what it takes for a framer to make a living and no matter how good a deal you do for them, there's very real risk that they will believe you have overcharged them and this can lead to much aggro and bad publicity from an aggrieved customer.

Consequently I refuse to use customers own materials and there are no exceptions!

same here.
I could give you a catalogue of misery that haas happened using other peoples materials in the past. 15 years ago we drew the line and always say no. Life is complicated enough as it is.

Guys,

cheers for all your comments, it is just a one off, the artist used a different framer a while back, he stopped & gave her the leftovers, so this would be the only time I will do this.....

Dave - You were right to be wary of warped moulding, one bit is, but it will be ok as it's the outer frame of two, so will be able to push it in and fix in place...

I use a 400% mark up on moulding to make up my time, sorry if I sound a bit thick here, would you say
that if i was using a £3per metre moulding and i needed 5 Metres for the frame, cost price is £15,
then with my mark up the total is £60, would you say deduct the £15, and charge £45 for the frame, this is a frame only for a canvas....

How does that sound, or am I missing something???

Cheers
Johnny.

That is what I would do

How does that sound, or am I missing something???

I think you are missing here that it doesn't matter how you handle this the artist will tell you that it is too expensive ... especially because he is giving you his own material, so how come you are charging for work this much (this is happening to us all the time). He will probably add that he would never sold any art if he charged his work as much as you

Look at it this way:

• - why does the other framer didn't accepted the job ?

• - what if something goes wrong when you work on it ... and believe me it always does

We even have cases that artist went directly to our distributors, bought a lengths of same molding we got and ask us to cut and assemble it. And because they don't get the same rebate as you who is buying quantities the final price of frame is higher than if they buy it from you ... when you quote them the price they will conclude that you want to get back to them because they didn't buy all at your place ... so it is lose lose situation.

Bottom line I find this kind of requirement's offensive ... and if artist become rude, offer him that you will buy him paint and canvas so how much will his painting cost

I regularly get asked this, probably because I'm in the centre of London and most artists have heard of a firm over in 'ackney who wil serve anyone.

I too find it offensive and always say no. I learnt the hard way in the past that if you do it once as a "favour" it will certainly come around and bite you big time.

You do it for one customer, they will tell their friends and they will all be looking on eBay for cheap rubbish mouldings to bring to you. Bad idea!

i guess if you were doing enough of this kind of work there is a benefit, that you dont need stock

but as others think its a bad idea

should ask them if they would take car parts to the gargae to get the mechanic to sort their car

stcstc wrote:i guess if you were doing enough of this kind of work there is a benefit, that you dont need stock

but as others think its a bad idea

should ask them if they would take car parts to the gargae to get the mechanic to sort their car

I asked one artist if they took their own fish to the chippy and asked them to fry it!

If I did in fact accept the job......

I would charge my shop rate with no guaranties as to the quality of the finished job. The shop rate would apply even if I was not successful.

Thanks guys,

great comments, think i will go for the using my 400% mark up, minus the moulding cost, I know how much it costs....

And I know this is a one off, just leftover moulding, so this shouldn't raise it's head again,
and will probably use a standard no to using customers mouldings in future,,,,,,,,,

Cheers again

Johnny.