The Framers Forum

Hello, I'm now wanting to hand-finish a frame - building up a wide frame by joining several mouldings together.

I'm trying to work out the best way to paint a frame white, and as smooth as possible. What products are best to use, and what do I prime with? - ESP, sanding sealer, an acrylic primer, car spray paint, gesso, ripple paint?????

Thanks

Are the frames raw wood or already finished?

Building up a smooth surface on bare wood takes a lot of elbow grease. Using trad gesso is the best way. Lots of sanding though.

Some ready finished mouldings will take cellulose (car) paint directly. Mostly the cheap plasticy-looking stuff. No prep needed save for a wipe over with thinners to remove any greasy spots.
A few coats of white gloss from spray cans will do the trick.
Some finishes might need rubbing down to give the paint a key. Only way is to try a bit and see if it can be scraped off with a fingernail when dry.

I use acrylic primer under coat (Leyland) on barewood and then whatever paint, this will still show some grain though.

Use gesso for a totally smooth surface - ivory smooth, then acrylic primer, then paint.

You could fill the grain with a fine filler and then use acrylic primer undercoat.

Thanks both, I'm using bare wood. Do you have any experience with ESP, or that only for non-wood shiny surfaces? If I'm sanding, and applying lots of coats should I do this before joining the frame?

ESP is a barrier coat for repainting 'difficult' surfaces. Kitchen units and such. Anything non-porous.

To prepare bare wood to a perfect smooth surface needs a lot of work. You can fill the grain with Polyfilla which will obliterate most of the pores in the grain. But you will have to spend hours putting coats of gesso on and sanding back to get it dead smooth. It may look and feel smooth with a few coats but the final coat will show up every inperfection.

*It is probably easier to do a lot of this prep with the moulding in the length. Apply a final coat after joining to blend the corners (and fill any mitre gaps).

If applying lots of coats of paint I almost always join the frame first, but that is just my preferred method. It's worth having a go and persevering with gesso, even if you are just doing a paint finish and not going to gild, it gives you a finish that not everyone offers and I don't think it actually takes that long to achieve.
A lot will depend on what type of finish you want to get.

Gesso!! Is it just me or are there lots of different types out there? Is it ok to use ones from art shops? What's best to use?
Same with primers, are they all much the same - household ones or artists ones?!!
thanks

Any of you experts fancy writing a book on hand-finishing - I'm sure it would be a bestseller!!

I've been doing lots of searching on the internet to try and understand it all a bit more - I know what you will all say, just experiment to see how things work, and I would if I could afford to buy all the products, but it's not cheap to try these different primers and paints and finishers - especially if I buy the wrong ones!

When would you use ripple paint? would it be instead of gesso, or instead of a primer? Can I use sanding sealer as a base for painting, or is this really only for a natural wood finish?

Anyone tried universal paint spray, or multi-surface paint, to use on an already manufactured finished frame (smooth surface)?

Thank you, I love this site!!

Julia wrote:Gesso!! Is it just me or are there lots of different types out there? Is it ok to use ones from art shops?

The stuff in art shops is for priming surfaces before painting so I would say not really suitable for moulding.

Prospero very kindly allowed me to visit his workshop one morning and he generously passed on a lot of tips most of which I have not had time to put into practice. I did however buy a big tub of Ripple Paint from Wickes to use a a primer on bare wood and I have to say it works well. You need the "Smooth" finish not the sandy one. As the name (Ripple) suggests it does not form a dead smooth surface although you can sand it back but if you are brush finishing over the top I would say that does not matter.

For a dead smooth finish the you can make up your own Gesso using rabbit skin glue and whiting (see p34 Lion brochure) but each caot will need sanding.

There is stuff sold in art shops that is termed Acrylic Gesso. It does behave totally differently to the traditional gesso though. It dries very hard and very tough to sand smooth. It does have it's uses though, especially if you want to do textured surfaces. But in practice, Ripple paint does the same job in most cases. And it's very cheap so you can slap it about with impunity. It's fairly thick straight out the tub, but you can add a bit more body and tint it by stirring in dry pigment such as powder paint (the stuff you used at skool). If you fill the grain with Polyfilla first and sand this smooth, blending the corners and filling any holes/gaps/assorted imperfections and then do a few coats of ripple you can build up a nice smooth surface. Diluting the ripple paint and using more coats will give a smoother surface as you are reducing the tendency for it to hold brushmarks. You can't really achieve the immaculate surface needed for water-gilding, but for painted effects it looks smooth enough. But it's main plus is that you can apply it thick and work it into all sorts of interesting textures. Use a comb/fork/back of a spoon/fingers and you'll be amazed at the final result. You can do very convincing rough-sawn wood. Add washes of colour on top and rub back - bingo. Hammered metal is another one I like.
Acrylic gesso is available in black . This is good for making textured black surfaces. Takes a while to dry really hard though, but once fully dry it can be polished to a high shine.

Julia wrote:Any of you experts fancy writing a book on hand-finishing - I'm sure it would be a bestseller!!

I'm Sure Pete Bingham has written a book, you can get it from Lion.

Pete Bingham's book was the first book I had on framing, bought on my first visit to the Spring Fair back in 93 or 94....
I would have been 15 or 16

It has a couple of pages on gesso and gilding, and is still a good intro to framing.

The Art of Framing by Piers and Caroline Feetham is a good book and covers lots of framing aspects, including some short chapters on hand finishing/gilding.

Practical Gilding by Peter and Ann Mactaggart is more in depth and technical, and also crosses over into sign writing gilding, but it is a very good foundation to start from.

I don't think there is any comparison between real gesso (made from rabbit skin glue and whiting) and all of the artist gesso, and pre made Liberon/Kolner gesso which are fine but work out very expensive.

Jonny2morsos wrote:
For a dead smooth finish the you can make up your own Gesso using rabbit skin glue and whiting (see p34 Lion brochure) but each caot will need sanding.

I have never understood why some sources say each coat should be sanded, not necessary as far as I can see.
Just brush it on, go and do something else and add more coats when the previous coat is dry (not fully 'white' dry but matt 'grey' dry) . For most paint finishes you can just smooth the surface with some damp cloths and no need for messy sanding.

If you just want to try it out, you could buy some from Ruth Tappin's website:

http://www.gilders-compo.co.uk/page8.html

and check out the 'How to Use' page on her website.