The Framers Forum

Hi there!

Does anyone know a good insurance company for framing? Also what an annual premium might cost? I did contact the Fine Art Trade Guild, I recieved a very long application form with lots of activities that wouldn't be relivant to my business just yet! I work "frame" from home so just looking to cover against accidental damage and theft.....happy to take some good advice!

Thanks
Rob

Try NFU Mutual. Been with them 2 years and the first company I felt really made the effort to understand our business.

They have been recommended by other forum members as well.

Thanks! I have just been on thier website and hit the "request quote button", so I will see what they can offer on Monday hopefully!

We just renewed with NFU. We have a home business polocy which covers all of or household as well as the business. We only got one other quote (from N&P) which was £250 above NFU. You get a nice personal touch from NFU as well in a local rep. Ours visited us and really trried to understand the business side of things. A lot of our friends in the village them as well as this is a farming community.

I'll like to big up the NFU too.

I use Aviva (previously known as Norwich Union). It's a business insurance package, which they call their salon policy. I don't tend to shop around, as I've always been happy with the deal, so I don't know how it compares with other companies these days.

When I switched to NFU it was about half what I was paying Aviva (NU) and with extra cover to boot.

Strange. I work out of a separate home workshop, my quote from NFU was through the roof. Very nice customer service though. Having said that, when we were in Surrey, I could not get them to quote having phoned several times, filled out their web form and called their head office.

My current insurers LV= will add a work from home cover that adds theft and a few other covers for a small fee. The best separate cover I have found is with Simply Business www.simplybusiness.com which covers stock, machinery and goods in trust (but not negligence on my part as part of the framing job), goods in transit, public liability and professional indemnity (PI).

The PI cover is interesting. I had a very good quote also from Direct Line business insurance. They weren't interested though when the subject of advice came up. Do those of you with business packages have PI cover included? The general view seems to be that if you give advice of any kind then you need it. Would you agree.

Thanks, Tim

PI cover is more for if someone injures themselves while on your premises. Trip over the doormat and they could sue you from the proverbial 'til Christmas. My policy covers me for claims up to 2.5 million.

That would be public liability. Product liability covers you should something you make not be fit for purpose, say the glass falls out and injures someone. Employers liability is mandatory if you have any staff.

Professional indemnity insurance provides cover for negligent advice or a service you give, to safeguard you against claims made by customers for any resulting financial loss or damage to their reputation. I thinking if you provide advice about some aspect of conservation framing and the work "degrades" leading to a loss of value.

I should probably ask a broker really as I think this is typically where someone pays for you for professional advice like an architect or accountant, but am interested to see if other framers have it in your package covers

My guess is that you would not need PI insurance as a framer because any advice you give would be acted upon by your goodself and then become product liability.

if you advised someone and they took it somewhere else then in court it would be argued that the person who framed the item should have given different advice and not framed the item based upon spurious advice.

Product Liability is another one that is difficult to prove since it is very unlikely it could be proved that you had made the product in such a way as to cause injury or significant loss to anyone. If the picture fell off the wall it could legitimately be argued that it was hung incorrectly in the first place.

Public Liability is important as is insurance against loss whilst in your possession (for instance a break-in, fire or just wanton vandalism) that will suddenly find a picture a customer has bought in go from " a couple of quid" to mega bucks. I haven't found anyone who can properly insurance against the likely risks.

Regarding the NFU, following recommendations from the Forum, I approached them for a quote and they duly visited but could not come up with a meaningful quoute.

I find it all rather worrying that the insurance industry seems to have little grasp of the real risks that we face but blindly quotes for things that are very unlikely to happen thus missing the more tangible risks.

they seem to work to a template and framers don't seem to fit the template, particularly those that are not shops.

I guess the acid test is when making a claim. We happily think one company is better than 'tother presumably based on customer service, cover and price. Thankfully I haven’t had to make a claim but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. (That’s two metaphors in one post, not bad for a Sunday).

AllFramed wrote:That would be public liability. Product liability covers you should something you make not be fit for purpose, say the glass falls out and injures someone. Employers liability is mandatory if you have any staff.

I stand corrected.

Sorry Prospero, that reads a bit like a lecture, doesn't it, not intended. I am still interested to see if any other framers have PI insurance.

I operate from home in a log cabin in my rear garden. Very comfortable and a great place to work. The problem I have found with insuring this type of operation is that insurers get cold feet when they have to insure "out of "the box"", in my case a log cabin! My normal broker was unable to get me any type of insurance cover and they backed away from the problem.

I then dug around and could not come up with anything. So I "bit the bullet" and joined the FATG and went to their insurer, Besso. I am still with them but it is incredibly expensive for my limited operation. Since I work for some well known local artists I do need reasonable cover on artwork and I also do deliver to some customers ( and charge for it!) so I need some Goods in Transit cover.

Since I have read the thread of this I have just been on to NFU Mutual and submitted an enquiry, so watch this space.

That's another thing: Goods in Transit. I have in the past had a carload of paintings that was worth more than the car. More than my house in fact. Not very far, but things can go very pear-shaped very quickly on the road.

I unfortunatly did have to make a claim back in 2009 when my shop was flooded. I had a little prior warning so managed to lift all customers work to a safe level plus all my mount board and stock that was stored at low level. I would urge everyone to make sure they are insured enough as it is shocking how much it all adds up to when you have to put it right. The most important part of the insurance for me was the business interuption as it took 3 months to get back to full trading. I get my insurance through my bank hsbc and am paying about £700 a year now but they were brilliant when it came to paying out.

Well today I joined NFU insurance! The business quote was very high, however they suggested doing a home buildings quote with small business added on and it came out the same price as I am paying with Nationwide for just home insurance. The staff at NFU were very helpful, I would recommend them! Nationwide did try to keep my business, but as I had to wait 20 mins to get through to speak to someone I decided not! Thanks for all you help on this post!