Blind slips

[strokebloke]

Some time ago I stated in one of the forums that I wanted to place glass in front of a glicée.
Peter - Prospero - suggested using blackcore blind slips. Once he'd explained what these are and what they do, I decided that this was the method I'd use to keep the giclée away from the glass.
That's the history.
The question is :-
How are the blind slips held in position between the glass and the canvas, to ensure that they don't slip out?

I'm using a material covered slip + the frame, on the outside of the glass, & the rebate of the slip is only 6mm.
That's no problem. I've cut the blind slips out of blackcore, at 5mm.
Are the blind slips just taped to the frame slip, once the glass is in place?

Any advice will be appreciated

Jack

[Roboframer]

Have you got a link to the thread you mention?

Visualisng your description, why not just use the material covered slip as a spacer instead of on the outside of the glass? The material covering the slip wouldn't get dirty then either.

[strokebloke]

Hello John.
The material covered slip is to provide width and contrast to the main - gold - frame.
Having re-read Peter's thread, I appreciate that his suggestion was for a frame without a slip included, but the principle would still apply.
http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 690#p72089

This is as much a learning exercise for me, as a framing job.
Whilst I can appreciate the wisdom of your suggestion to place the glass between the frame and the slip, I have planned it to have the glass in the slip rebate - I've cut the glass, ready to go in.
OK, it wouldn't be a catastrophe to have to cut another piece of glass, but I would like to complete it the way I had planned it.
My thought was to place the glass in the slip rebate, then place the blind slip, with a narrow length of tape attached, onto the inside of the glass and then attach the overhanging tape to the side of the rebate. Would that be acceptable in terms of 'good-practice', even supposed it worked satisfactorily?

[Roboframer]

I fix foam board spacers to the rebate, with PVA (wood glue) and a few dabs of ATG tape just to hold it in place while the glue goes off. If your spacers are too skinny for the width of ATG tape, squeeze two (or more) together, apply the tape over them and cut through. Also apply the glue either with a very fine nozzle or with what I call a 'very expensive tool' a long skinny triangle of mount board with its point dipped in the glue.

Glue provides a better bond, tape can fail, don't ask me how I know

[strokebloke]

This is the job BTW John

Grimshaw 03.jpg

Grimshaw 02.jpg

[strokebloke]

Thanks John.

don't ask me how I know

I try not to ask questions which may be embarrassing.
(questions which embarrass me are the norm)

[Roboframer]

Well you can easily complete it as you had planned it, nothing wrong with that (especially as you've already cut the glass to fit the slip). But IMHO you're just making work for yourself, that linen slip (I hate them BTW/FWIW) would provide the required function, look exactly the same and be kept clean to boot.

[strokebloke]

OK.
I think I am persuaded.
I'll cut another piece of glass in the morning.
(it's only 14" x 22" ~ so it will get used on something else)
If you'd care to explain the reasons for "BTW/FWIW" I'd be interested to hear your views.
I was told by my supplier that this was a conventional method of displaying canvases.
He's a great guy, but sometimes I get the distinct impression that he sells me what he wants to dispose of

[IFGL]

I know your already convinced, but just to reinforce Roboframer I also would put the glass between the frame and the canvas slip, I would have tried hard to push AR glass for the order, expensive but would look great .

[strokebloke]

Now, therein lies my real problem IFGL.
I'm capable of producing: and once I've had sufficient practice, producing good work.
But I'm a useless salesman
I always feel so guilty.
Almost as if I'm taking food off the client's dining table, or money out of their mortgage account.
I know it's ridiculous, but it doesn't detract from it being the way I feel.
I can almost feel myself cringing when I specify prices - even if they're reasonable prices.
I've never had to sell before.
I was a structural engineer. I worked to Institute approves fees, for given types of consultancy. Very impersonal.
If the client didn't want to pay my fees, he was perfectly free to go to another engineer (who would quote him similar fees)
Clients weren't buying my prices/my materials - they were buying my specialist expertise.
A different ball game.

[Roboframer]

These linen slips are very old-fashioned; what the initial thinking was I've no idea but when I started out they seemed to be the norm with "oils" and I just accepted that like everyone else. But I was also weaned by a local supplier.

If you were to look at that image or most "oils" and think about the "rules" of colour - don't go darker or lighter than anything (in the main areas at least) in the image - these slips will mostly break them.

They also look better, if you absolutely have to include them, as a small accent - i.e. with a muuuuuch larger frame around them .... like a deep wrapped bevel on a wide mount.

If that mage was on paper it would be mounted (matted in US speak) and the mount alone would ideally be even wider than that frame combination. A mount at least 3" wide with that same outer frame would look great - a frame that overall width, losing the slip, or adding one in a more matching colour, would also. But a frame that wide, with a mount as wide as that slip ...........? I wouldn't.

[Jonny2morsos]

I don't like linen slips much either and while they are "conventional" times have moved on and painted slips are more popular nowdays.

You can buy bare wood slips and finish them by painting to a suitable colour or use a finished moulding. Another method is to refinish moulding you have in stock by painting over the existing finish.

In the example below I used two mouldings which I had some part used lengths hanging around the workshop. The outer is an Arqadia moulding which was finished in an ivory colour and the other a blue stain!

untitled.JPG

A useful "slip" from our supplier is a normal moulding - TS 2423 WH and this can be used inside the main frame for smaller jobs just use the narrower version.

[strokebloke]

Thanks John. In fact, both Johns
There's a lot in there for me to think about.
I have a lot to learn about the composition of frames/mounts/image. Also colour combinations - what works/what doesn't.
'Rules of colour' is a completely new one to me. I wasn't aware that there are such things as (aesthetic) rules in framing.
I should have guessed that there would be ~ photography is a minefield of 'rules'. Most of which can only be 'broken' when you fully understand why they have been imposed in the first place.

[Jonny2morsos]

Jack - what is the outer moulding you have used?

[Jonny2morsos]

Never feel guilty about "selling " anti-reflective glass.

Offer the customer the choice and leave it up to them. I would feel more guilty if I just put normal glass in and the customer came back and asked why they were not offered the better product.

Keep a few examples on the wall to show how different it is.

[strokebloke]

John,
the gold outer frame is TM 4212 BG
the slip is TC 6150 L1

The 'selling' is a mental thing.
Something I'll obviously have to engage with, and overcome; if I am to get anywhere as a framer
I don't know where it comes from - All my life I've always shied away from imposing what I think upon others.
Professionally - that was another matter. I was commissioned to provide solutions.
Framing sounds the same; but in my mind, it's not (yet)
That's what I mean about it being a mental thing.

I'll get there ~ I just need re-training, that's all

[prospero]

That material covered bit ain't a slip. It's a liner.


And then there's fillets....

[IFGL]

Of fish for my wife.

[retropic]

Personally I love linen slips for oils and I bung it in all the oils I frame for myself. A particular favorite is one from Simons which has a gold leading edge and is truly cheesy. However, my flat does look like the set of Abigail's Party, so they look completely at home. If a customer comes in with something framed in the 70s wanting it to be reframed, I go into seventies heaven and can't wait to get the old frame home to reuse for myself. Some positively awful decades old pictures have been given a new lease of life thanks to the lack of good taste from my customers

[strokebloke]

Oh dear. just when I think I'm getting the hang of it, someone moves the goal posts

So ~ please explain the difference between a :-
Slip
Liner
were you being serious about a Fillet, Peter?



By the way, I'm still uncertain about the best way to secure blackcore blind slips, which are between the glass and the artwork

I suspect that some of you are now wishing that John Mc had told me to go away, at the registration stage, aren't you?