The Framers Forum

I might be getting a little sceptical in my old age but see if you recognise this scenario...

A customer rings up or calls in and says he wants a shirt framed (or something else) and says he has a load of them that he needs doing, you end up giving a good price on the first one on the "promise" of work that never materializes in the future... It has happened to me in the past.

What's the best way of offering some sort of "rolling discount" ( I doint know what that means but it sounded good )

cheers
Adam/Bagpuss

I have it all the time, especially people about to set up a new fantastic concept online shop with loads of bells and whistles that no one else offers. Did i sound sceptical their?

I always treat them with the contempt that they deserve. I tell people as a contract framer they are getting my best price, the price that my customers who spend £50-60k get so really they are getting a bargain. That usually shuts them up. The reality is that even with all the best intentions in the world the work won't come back, probably because it never existed or their business doesn't meet there rather generous expectations or that they use your price as a lever with another poor gullible framer.

You could try a rolling discount that the price decreases the more units they order, or just stick to your guns and say this is the best price.

I think you are wise to be sceptical. I think they need to put the wallet were their mouth is and order 20 units (and pay for them).

Cheers

Alistair

When asked for a price on 20, 50 ,100 etc - always give a price for 1, 2 or 5 as a matter of policy!

Remember from small acorns mighty oaks grow and sometimes people are honest on the flipside so keep it in perspective and try not to get waspy unless you really can afford to turn work away.

But it is always your business and you only have to do work you want, for the price you want. What annoys me most is the well off men who seem to think they have license to cross examine your prices like you are Tescos and are cleverer at working them out than you (they are usually accompanied by a more easy going partner who has to apologise for them!). If I want to charge £20 for something I freely can - whether I said it would cheaper if bought with a frame or whatever because every seperate order takes time. It's amazing how dumb they suddenly become when trying to work something out that will increase the price. And never expect to be charged for the half an hour they take agonising over wanting a very cheap frame "that shape but in this colour".

A good pricing system obviously helps which I have to an extent (certainly once I get the software running and my frames inputted onto the previewer), but with awkward items sometimes it's hard to nail it down.

...if I had a pound for everytime I heard a customer say I have more work to be framed I would be a millionaire...!

I get this everytime a customer leaves after picking up their order and it invariably never materialises which could be for one of many reasons:

1) it's just an exit conversation piece
2) my work is rubbish and they're too cowardly to tell me
3) people don't see framing as a priority just a nice to have

I'd rather they say they've got nothing else but thanks for what you've done - that way they'll be back lol..!

Hi Adam,
I agree with the above posts, give them a price for one, and if they say they have "Loads" more to bring in, just tell them they can have a rolling discount, for say 10's, 25's or 50's if they are going to use the same materials, moulding, mountcard etc, because if they don't use the same for all, it's not economically. You could stil give them a discount if they chose different materials on each job, but not a big a discount. The same goes for when people ring up or email asking for a range of sample frames and mounts, free of charge (yeah ) because they would like to place and order for 50-100 units, and you know damn well they are trying to pull a fast one, especially when thier email address ends in @gmail.com . so they are not a company.

Steve

Repeat orders at a discount only really makes sense if you do them in batches because without that there is no saving on your time and materials.

However, business relationships do build up over time. For instance I do a fair bit for local photo studios but I restrict the choices of mouldings and mount boards to what I keep in stock.

i get it all the time, and generally i give people discounts on volume orders placed

although before christmas i did take a gamble on a job, where i gave a discount. thinking nah never gonna get decent orders from it

to date i have had 6K worth of orders from it, so was worth the gamble

sometimes you just have to weigh up if you think its a good gamble

we get this from 'medal collectors' ie loads of separate frames to be done with detail etc etc - so lets start with one 4 medal frame - how much ? we charge according to our website tariff no rates for mates or discounts etc whats the point! we don't overcharge like the medal dealers do and we know what we are about - an old saying

lend a man a pound and you got him by the balls

lend a man a million pounds and hes got you by the balls (do a cheapie based on the volume you may/may not get)

never let the customer get you by the balls

just added

if you can't see it , touch it , feel it, smell it , taste it - it don't exist - learnt that in banking! CHEQUE IS IN THE POST

As above. I only give a discount on the work they bring in, if they bring more in the future they'll get a suitable discount. I point out that our prices are competitive and for us to offer a discount we have to be making savings ourselves, same frame same size that sort of thing.

If they are angling for a discount on the basis of more work to come, what they are actually offering is for you to lose money over an extended period. If they are talking a quantites of identical frames at a discount - fair enough. But one of the oldest tricks is to ask you to do one as a example. Charge them the full price for it. You can always knock off the difference when you get the first order for 100.

Bagel Framer wrote:...if I had a pound for everytime I heard a customer say I have more work to be framed I would be a millionaire...!

Spot on! Have heard the same comment uncountabajillion times and can't remember getting any work from anyone who said it.

People meet me on the street and say it. People who have just been introduced say it. Relatives say it. Artists have said it after getting one or several jobs done and they never come back (those ones shop on price alone) Cannot remember ever having got a job from someone who tells me they will get some framing done.

The ones that bring one job with a promise of many more are just plain liars. They only have that one job and want a discount. It's good idea to give them a 'special price' - 10% or 20% more is a 'special price'.

Hi Adam,
I used to find that when these people used to come in and asked for a discount with the promise of £££££s of work they could give me if the price was right I would put the price up by 15% and tell them the price and I would then give them a10% discount.
Nine times out of ten it worked.You usually find that when customers want a lot of work done they will bring in a few pieces to price up and that's when you can give them a price for bulk amounts ie in 10s or 20 s
Perhaps it's not the right way to do things but it does help to sort out the time wasters.

Tony

You have to play things by ear sometimes, there was an episode of 'Kung Fu' which I really liked I (and have no doubt mentioned before) where glasshopper and his buddy got mugged and the tutor asked them both what they had rearned flom the expelience.

Glasshopper's buddy said "Never tlust anyone'

Glasshopper said 'Arways expect the unexpected'

The tutor said to Glasshopper's buddy 'You may reave the schoor now'

As you tlaver thlough your flaming journey, you wiw meet those that are wexations to your spilit and arso those that ahh to be tlusted, and, in time you wiw rearn to diffelentiate between the two in a brink of an eye.

Holy ####, who'd've thunk there'd be a youtube link!

[youtube]http://0JBQPCHHK0Q[/youtube]



(edit - I can't seem to get the hang of embedding youtube links, someone hit quote in my post and tell me what I'm doing wrong!)

I always price the work as a 'one off', i.e. no discount. Tell them they'll get the volume discount as and when it comes in as a firm order. No problem then!

I wonder if folks would ask for a discount on a loaf of bread at Tescos with the promise that they will be wanting a lot more over the next few years and maybe some butter too. Might try it next week.

john - just copy and paste everything after the = sign

[youtube]0JBQPCHHK0Q[/youtube]

Roboframer wrote:
(edit - I can't seem to get the hang of embedding youtube links, someone hit quote in my post and tell me what I'm doing wrong!)

Think I may have it - testing .....


[youtube]0JBQPCHHK0Q[/youtube]


BINGO!!!